Web3 Integration and Creator Economy Revolution: Omer Luzzatti on Gigaverse's Blockchain Vision (Part 2)

Anthony Perl: 00:00:02

Web3 Integration and the Creator Economy Revolution.

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Oma LA on Giga versus

Blockchain Vision part two.

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In this episode, Dr.

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Gemma Green continues her conversation

with Oma Lati exploring how Giga

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versus Web3 integration could

revolutionize creator economies

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through blockchain technology, they

dive deeper into why community token

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economies are essential for the

future of creator audience engagement.

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How secondary markets could amplify

creative value beyond traditional

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platforms and giga versus innovative

approach to content moderation that

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adapts to different community standards,

along with their exciting partnerships,

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including Music City San Francisco, for

their reality show style integration,

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and major music podcast networks.

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They discuss how they're solving

real world challenges like

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quality content discovery and

community specific moderation.

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I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl,

and whether you're an investor or

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a startup looking for insights,

it's time to get unblocked

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as we get ready to pick

up the conversation.

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Here's a quick recap from last episode

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Jemma Green: communities that

you're targeting to use Gigawatt

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er in Web3 and Blockchain.

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But my question related to that was

do you have any Web3 or blockchains

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elements to the Giga verse product?

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Are you talking about

tokens in the blockchain?

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Sense of the word.

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Omer Luzzatti: So we haven't

targeted crypto communities per se.

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Now, when we are thinking about,

back to your questions about the

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Web3, the first thing that creators,

the one that we are working with

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is asking us is ticketed events.

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So basically, I want people come

to my podcast to pay $1, $2, $10.

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But the way that we are thinking about it

in terms of the engagement, in terms of.

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Monetizing within the community

is these elements of points,

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rewards and things like that.

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That's one of the thoughts of

that we have, obviously for crypto

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communities, it's pretty obvious for

creators and other type of communities.

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This is a little bit more challenging

now to think that forward ahead.

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Anthony Perl: You know what's fascinating

about everything that you were just

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saying is it kind of replicates what is

happening in the Freeto Air TV market.

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If you look at, you know, a reality TV

program is a good example where there's.

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An element of quality content or debatable

equality, but content that's being

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created and what actually happens after

that is there are often people that

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are separate shows, which are talking

about the main show as well as podcasts

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and other things that are happening.

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So what you're essentially trying

to do is to replicate that, but in

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this kind of an environment that

enables you to monetize that process

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so that people will actually benefit.

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From that ongoing discussion and

that's, is that kind of the way of also

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making sure that you've got quality?

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Because that was one of the things I

think that has gone wrong with a lot

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of the other platforms is there's been

no way of really measuring quality.

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There's been so much rubbish out

there that that's what just saturated

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it and people just disappeared.

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Omer Luzzatti: Yeah, so Abby just

mentioned me and said that I can

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talk about Music City, San Francisco.

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So Music City, San Francisco.

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Is that exactly what they

wanna do with our platform?

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It's basically a reality show.

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What is Music City?

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San Francisco is a new building

actually in San Francisco that is

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the bottom three floors, podcast room

and the karaoke room and a big arena

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and for events and for concerts.

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And then they have a hotel on top.

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It's basically to bring rock stars

back to the city and to create a place

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for them to, for young bands to live.

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So we are partnering and they want to

do a reality show exactly like that.

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Showing, you know, the band and

then showing the room and then

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showing the fans and then, okay,

so all that, that is part of it.

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But you were catching the other point,

which is then to have the community.

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Discussing it, leaving it, and

it's true for almost every content.

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Netflix movies, from Netflix movies

to sports are obviously watching

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together, sport events and then

talking about it within the fans.

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So yes.

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Now in terms of your second

comment about the quality.

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I definitely want, and you know,

Abby knows it 'cause that's something

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that I'm trying always to push for.

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But then I'm aware that it's

also something that we need to

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be aware not to push too far for,

is to have quality discussions.

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Now, how can we, with AI create

quality discussions other than, you

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know, adding information, et cetera.

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And we can build a prototype for it.

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We can call out when people are

making policies like Ed Homi, right?

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Instead of talking about your

argument, I'm talking about you.

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Instead of, I'm creating a

strong man argument, right?

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I am inventing something that no one

actually said, and, and I'm attacking that

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figure instead of talking to the point.

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So all these things, so things that

would be AI that now is listening

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and understands everything that we're

saying, we can analyze the discussion

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and move it maybe to a better place,

but I'm also aware that that focus

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might be a little bit too narrow.

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I'm aware that people sometimes

want to just talk, right?

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Anthony Perl: Well, quality's a

big battle on any media platform.

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And you look at Netflix, which gets

criticized for ending shows in many

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fans' cases prematurely, but they're

doing that to generate new material

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and new quality so that you don't get

bogged down in what is old content

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or you know, continuing old series.

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So they can bring new

things in all the time.

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And I think that's the

challenge, isn't it?

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Because.

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How do you actually manage that so

that your platform doesn't get flooded

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with average content and people having

discussions that are, yes, there's a

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small community that are interested,

but largely if there becomes lots of

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small communities talking about things

that are, don't have much quality about

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them, then that's where the problem is,

is actually finding the quality stuff.

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Omer Luzzatti: Yeah.

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So maybe I will talk about how

we are thinking about moderation

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in general and for communities.

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So obviously legally there are

several things that must be allowed

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or disallowed on any platform.

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Right?

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But these, and I'm talking especially

about the United States, these are

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very, very clear and very, very narrow.

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I mean, the freedom of speech

obviously is one of the amendment

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and, and is a big thing.

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And there are only four things

that actually you cannot.

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Talk about from legal perspective,

obviously things like, uh, weapons

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selling, weapons direct attacks, and

threats to a specifically individual.

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So these are very, very specific

and we must obviously obey the law.

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Then What we are building is basically

for every community to enable their

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own gon in their own language.

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By providing them with the

ability also to change things.

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I'll give you an example.

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If we as a platform decide that some

words are something that we don't want

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to have on the platform, right, and we

can come with these words or whatever

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we the intent of these words as well.

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But then if you take hip-hop community.

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That he's talking about

hiphop lyrics, right?

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They can definitely come and alter

and change these global rules of

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the platform in order to adapt it to

their own community, which is more

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tolerant obviously for some language.

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Then for even for every event, you

can decide that now I want within

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that event to allow or to disallow

certain jargon or certain language.

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So we do, because we think

about building for communities.

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We know that some communities

have different tolerance and

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wanna talk about certain things,

obviously, according to the law.

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So that is one thing that is completely

different than any other platform today.

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The other element, which is very much

also close to it, is what can you

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do when people are saying something

that is not according to your laws or

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according to your community rules, right?

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And even there will allowing much more

to the hosts and to the community owners.

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So I'll give you the example

where it all started.

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Matt Sorum is also one of

the founders of Gig Averse.

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He was a drum of, uh, guns and Roses.

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He did an event with these fans and the

event was about a record that was sold

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that wasn't guns and Roses, and he didn't

want questions about guns and roses.

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Okay.

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So obviously for us it's very, very

easy to comment and to say every

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time that someone is writing guns

and roses, delete the question.

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Right?

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And that's what most platforms, if not

all of them, will do in, in such a case.

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But what if someone is asking

about Axel Rose, right?

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Or someone is coming and asking,

oh, in, in: 1991

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why didn't you do this or that?

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Right?

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So we need to understand the intent and

the AI can understand the intent that

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Axel Rose was part of Guns and Roses.

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So if no questions about guns and roses,

then no question about about Axel Rose.

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Jemma Green: Well sweet child of mine.

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Omer Luzzatti: So, oh, and we

have a name drop of Axel Rose.

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You can see and read more and

is vocalists and co-founder.

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So we can understand the intent, but

now it's even the second order question.

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Okay, so what are we going to do

about someone asking about Axel host?

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And here we allow the

hosts to make decisions.

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In some cases it may be delete

the question, in some other cases,

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completely ban the individual from

the discussion, kick them out.

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Or FDAI answer the question

if the question was something

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that the AI can answer.

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Okay.

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I won't be bothered, but I don't care

that people will an, that the AI will

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answer the question about, so that's the

way that we're approaching moderation

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in a completely different way than what

is available today on other clients.

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Jemma Green: I mean, there's so many

new things here that people wouldn't

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even know about until they kind of

experience it for the first time.

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So once they're in the tent, they can.

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See all of the different toys and

get really excited and use them.

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But before that, what would you say

is like the biggest sort of challenge

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to adoption of this new experience?

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Omer Luzzatti: Yeah.

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No, it's a fantastic question

because Abby here, by the way, is

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head of product and also his role

to make it simple and to have people

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work with, we are builders, right?

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We come with ideas and we

build them, but then we need

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to obviously sell them, right?

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And to have people exposed to it.

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You wouldn't even know about name drop

without something happen here, right?

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So all that you can trigger a poll, right?

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So there is a question of the, the

product itself and how to make it visible.

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And then there is a question

of how do we market it?

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How do we package it, and how

do we let people know about it?

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I don't have a very, very good

answer here, but we are walking our

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way to, you know, to move forward

is basically to walk with partners

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that are much closer, the creators.

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So in that essence, it's a

little bit like a B two, B2C.

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Mm-hmm.

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And they are also a, the one that

are giving us feedback about the

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solution and what they wanna see.

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For example, ticketing is, must have for

them to bring the podcasters on board.

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So Pantheon podcasters are one partner.

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They are the biggest music

podcasters network in the

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world, or at least in the us.

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Metallica is their band that I

mentioned before, and they introduce

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us to additional podcast networks.

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The other one is still one

entertainment in the Philippines.

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They mentioned before they

have 400 million end users.

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It's a creator house.

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We're

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Jemma Green: sitting on the

fence with that response, Omar.

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Omer Luzzatti: Yeah, but the, the names

that are mentioned on Spotify Apple

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Podcast, obviously this is different.

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What Pantheon is doing is basically

increasing the revenue for their

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podcasters by bringing relevant ads.

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And obviously the podcast itself

is on Spotify and all this.

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So at Tier One Entertainment, they have

many creators and I mentioned before.

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Political figures, gamers, chefs, right?

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Young people that are just going the

streets and at them telling the fans

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that they're going from point A to

point B in Manila and they have hundred

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thousands of people watching them walking.

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So with them, we are engaged now

in the next four to six months

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to try out multiple use cases

and each use case some other.

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Features actually would

shine fact checking.

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I don't think it's very relevant

for people walking the street,

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but for obviously political

discussions is very relevant.

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Jemma Green: Got it.

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And it sounds like, you know, because

there are so many different sort of

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segments, the approach that you're

taking, I mean, you just said B two,

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B2C, but the within that, the way

that you are going about getting

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customers is quite different.

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Omer Luzzatti: Yeah, we made the

decision to focus on podcast and podcast

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live, and we did several research

demonstrating the appetite to A, to

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go live, B, to create a community

around them and C, to monetize better.

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So I remember correctly something like

72% and then we segmented it into values.

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Uh, parts sport is very,

very big for this, right?

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And indeed we have creator, she's

very close to the UFC women fights.

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So we are going to have something

with the UFC and and over there.

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For example, the after the fight,

it's to open giga verse and to have

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fans coming and asking questions,

paying for $5 to ask a question

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and to be answered by the fighter.

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But then especially because of K one and

because of we see other opportunities,

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we're opening it more now to additional

type of creators, not only podcasters.

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Also communities more and more to

shine also that part of the community.

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So I think to answer your question

maybe more kind of philosophically

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we're to focus and when to

open right is a big question.

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I think that we, and, and there

are several approaches here.

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We are finding now via these different.

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Verticals, let's call them.

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This way, we are finding what is actually

working, what is more relevant, what

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is less relevant, and then basically

also with tier one, their approach

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is then to create a playbook that you

can replicate more and more and more

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with, with additional creator of type.

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So that is while obviously

building the solution and making

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it simple for people to involve.

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Anthony Perl: Again, it's quite

interesting because it's kind of not

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dissimilar to the TV landscape where

they partner with production houses that

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deliver bunches of content, you know,

as well, and a variety of that sort of

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content and, and controlling it that way.

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So it's an inter, it's interesting that

the model is not dissimilar to what's

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working in mainstream, but taking

it to a, a level that's much more

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accessible than, you know, paying for

a TV show through a production house.

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Omer Luzzatti: And you got to spot

on, and Jacob has a questionnaire.

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So unlike, I don't know, Gemma, if

you are a host, Anton is definitely

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a host because he started it.

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So he has another tab with insights

and he can see the the questions.

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So Jacob is asking, can Gabe,

with existing discoveries broken?

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Jemma Green: So how do you think

about solving the Cold Start

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problem for emerging creators

that don't have an audience yet?

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Or does gig averse assume they'll

come in already with an audience?

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Omer Luzzatti: So we are not

trying currently to solve the

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discovery within the platform.

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What we enable them though, Jacob,

is to utilize the all the other

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platforms that are there in order to

engage with their existing audience.

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So if you have a YouTube live, and many of

them do YouTube live, Instagram, Twitch.

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A LinkedIn, right?

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You can stream this on these

platforms and have the people

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seeing it the moment that they want.

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They wanna ask a question the

moment that they wanna be on stage,

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then they will come to Giger.

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So we see it currently not as a solution

that the podcasters that have, let's

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say, thousands of people watching them.

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We'll move all the thousands here.

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We see it more kind of the salon or

the intimate environment that the

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hundred, 200, 300 fans will come

and then will spread the moment that

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we will have more communities, the

moment that we will have more content.

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Currently, we have something

like 400 communities.

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And around I can, I can immediately

check, but I think something like 5,000

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users at the moment, that we will have

content and the ability to incentivize

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people to come, oh, now this is happening.

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Now that is happening.

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To blend things together and then we'll

need a real good discovery mechanism.

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That's again, going back to

the balance between to have.

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A serious platform that you come because

you wanna hear a discussion or because

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you wanna see your chef or cook with

your chef, versus a place that you scroll

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and jump from one event to another.

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A good discovery with a good algorithm

for discovery is essential for Instagram,

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TikTok, obviously, and Twitter because

they wanna promote to you content that

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will keep you engaged and keep you more.

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On the platform, we are trying something

that is slightly different, which is

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we want you to stay here because we'll

make you engage in this discussion

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by asking more polls, by the fact

that you know that if you ask a good

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question, just like the one that

you did, you'll now get two points.

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And with these two points you can

buy an NFT or you can cash out.

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So that's the gamification of

communities that we expect.

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We are trying to have that one, the

engagement engine and not the scrolling

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from one to community to another.

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Anthony Perl: Can I just ask a question

because I think I'm very cognizant of

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: 00:19:14

the fact that where here we are in the

giga verse and we're doing this live at

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: 00:19:17

the moment, but there'll also be plenty

of people that will be listening to this

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: 00:19:21

as an audio based podcast in the future.

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: 00:19:24

So maybe you wanna take people through

a little bit about some of the features

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: 00:19:27

that are actually in the giga verse,

but also interested in what's coming.

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: 00:19:32

Omer Luzzatti: Sure.

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: 00:19:33

So currently we have a

platform for many, too many.

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: 00:19:36

As you can see, we built it in such a way

that there is audience, and then the hosts

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: 00:19:41

and people that are talking and asking.

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: 00:19:44

Obviously, there is a chat.

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: 00:19:46

There is, as I demonstrated

before, you can create polls.

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: 00:19:50

You can moderate the discussion.

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: 00:19:52

You can have fact check and to enhance the

discussion and other elements like that.

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: 00:19:58

In addition, immediately after this

is done, we are creating the recording

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: 00:20:04

of this, of it, if you're recording

it, and then highlights and various

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: 00:20:08

clips that you can immediately

share with your audience, right?

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: 00:20:12

Mostly on the platform like

Instagram and others, including

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: 00:20:16

the summary of the discussion.

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: 00:20:18

The transcript is here.

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: 00:20:20

The transcript mentions who is saying

what, which is also something that is.

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: 00:20:24

You know, kind of, you can have it

in multiple languages, obviously,

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: 00:20:28

and we understand multiple languages.

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: 00:20:30

And the voice activation

is also languages.

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: 00:20:32

The community page is a page that

you land when or when you wanna

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: 00:20:38

see the recording or when you

want to chat with your community.

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: 00:20:41

And this is something, for example, on

Zoom that doesn't really exist, right?

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: 00:20:44

On Zoom.

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: 00:20:45

There is no community and thus is

no discussion post live, pre-live.

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: 00:20:51

We are now building the post live

and pre-live to become much more

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: 00:20:57

engaging as well, so that the hosts,

for example, Gemma, in this particular

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: 00:21:01

case before the podcast, the community

knowing that now she's going to host.

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: 00:21:06

Someone can ask questions

before and after.

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: 00:21:10

They can watch it together.

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: 00:21:11

They can watch the podcast.

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: 00:21:13

So elements to tie the live into

the community in better way.

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: 00:21:17

In terms of motivation, we are

adding the video layer now.

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: 00:21:21

The video layer understands the

video first in order to moderate.

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: 00:21:26

So for example, you have on your back

right being the voice brilliance, but,

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: 00:21:31

but if you had something offensive,

then we could also understand that and

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: 00:21:37

we know that it's something that is

happening, especially in discussions.

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: 00:21:40

So something offensive and

then we'll have the alert.

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: 00:21:43

Oh, although Anthony is great.

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: 00:21:46

There is something offensive in that

video, in addition to many, many other

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: 00:21:49

elements that are much more relevant to

gardening together, cooking together,

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: 00:21:55

where the visual elements is much more

dominant than just the talking heads.

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: 00:22:00

Monetization is the biggest

one that we're adding and that

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: 00:22:03

we are planning what to add.

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: 00:22:05

Obviously we need to think

how to build it, how to build

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: 00:22:09

this reward and point system.

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: 00:22:11

Uh, we're in discussion with

some platform that un know.

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: 00:22:14

We spoke to Lynn several times.

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: 00:22:17

The crypto experts that are around

us, as you know, we have extensive

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: 00:22:22

lists there, so we are thinking

how to build an organization and

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: 00:22:26

points system that is suitable for

us and makes sense for communities.

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: 00:22:32

It needs to be very, very simple because

creators don't really understand it yet.

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: 00:22:37

So I would say that I put

first monetization then.

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: 00:22:42

Making the community

elements much more alive.

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: 00:22:46

The AI can bring content.

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: 00:22:47

I said many things we spoke.

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: 00:22:49

Now the AI afterwards can not only

summarize the discussion, but search

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: 00:22:55

the web tomorrow and come with, oh, the

competitors of giga verse are right and to

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: 00:23:02

make and to open the room automatically.

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: 00:23:04

We are thinking what makes the community

community right and there is some cadence.

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: 00:23:08

So every week at 8:00 AM on Wednesday,

the room will open automatically.

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: 00:23:14

People get notified and people can join.

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: 00:23:17

Many ways to help community

activators to build a community

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: 00:23:22

that is not only about the live

element, but also about the as sink.

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: 00:23:26

Jemma Green: Awesome.

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: 00:23:27

You mentioned about paying for podcasts,

like entry, most podcasts are free.

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: 00:23:32

Do you see that as like a

point of friction or because

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: 00:23:35

they get to interact with.

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: 00:23:36

The creators or the thing the

people they're fans of, then

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: 00:23:40

that makes it a bit more nuanced.

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: 00:23:42

Omer Luzzatti: The podcast industry

is, on one hand, it's growing.

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: 00:23:45

On the other hand, podcasters typically

use it as a second hobby, right?

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: 00:23:51

And not as something to make money

when they try to make money off it.

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: 00:23:54

It's extremely challenging and it's

very, very, very small amounts.

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: 00:23:58

So yes, many of them, and I would call the

me podcaster, but the one that are running

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: 00:24:03

more than, you know, 30 shows already.

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: 00:24:07

And know how demanding it is to

find podcast, to find people to

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: 00:24:10

talk to, and then to monetize it.

384

: 00:24:12

Yes.

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: 00:24:13

They definitely are Thinking about

ways to monetize and ticketing

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: 00:24:17

is one of the first ones.

387

: 00:24:18

The ad-based solutions for podcasters is

also very, very limited, and obviously

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: 00:24:24

the platforms are taking a huge cut of it.

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: 00:24:27

Jemma Green: Yeah.

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: 00:24:28

Anthony Perl: What's fascinating

about podcasting content is that

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: 00:24:31

most podcasters forget about the

content that they've already created.

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: 00:24:36

I think that's where the interesting

opportunities are as well, because it's

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: 00:24:41

cross-referencing and, and using the

AI to bring back some of that content

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: 00:24:47

that's already been created and might

have happened some time ago, but to

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: 00:24:51

bring that back to people, which is what

doesn't really happen on Spotify and

396

: 00:24:55

Apple and those platforms to an extent

happens on YouTube because of search.

397

: 00:25:00

Omer Luzzatti: It's a very good point,

and we need to think exactly how

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: 00:25:02

to make that part of the community

live and part of the podcast live.

399

: 00:25:07

By the way, the clock on the right will

bring you all the soundbites and the

400

: 00:25:11

fact check, but there was an interesting

one with Castor that suggesting the

401

: 00:25:16

small audiences can earn between

zero to hundred per episode dollars.

402

: 00:25:21

There are value ways for

broadcaster to earn money.

403

: 00:25:24

Sponsorship advertisement

mentioned by this and that.

404

: 00:25:27

So if you wanna dive into the way the

podcasters, basically the fact check,

405

: 00:25:31

what we're doing is form analyzing

the statement or the question.

406

: 00:25:36

We are taking multiple

questions out of it.

407

: 00:25:39

We are searching the web, so I can ask

now about stock market and obviously

408

: 00:25:44

I have maybe response and then we are

getting something like 30,000 pages.

409

: 00:25:50

Summarizing them into

this read more element.

410

: 00:25:53

So if you wanna talk about stocks

though, you know, Bitcoin is up 5% today.

411

: 00:25:58

Let's fact check it.

412

: 00:26:00

I have no idea if it's true or not.

413

: 00:26:03

Probably not.

414

: 00:26:04

Uh, the last 24 hours

415

: 00:26:07

Jemma Green: down 1.7%.

416

: 00:26:09

Omer Luzzatti: Yeah.

417

: 00:26:09

Okay.

418

: 00:26:10

So you can see how you can utilize it.

419

: 00:26:12

Jemma Green: Yeah.

420

: 00:26:13

Oma, I'm gonna just summarize

this conversation in a moment.

421

: 00:26:18

Just before I do, could you tell us

your favorite song at the moment?

422

: 00:26:23

Omer Luzzatti: Favorite song?

423

: 00:26:25

The only thing that comes to my mind,

because I was walking the dogs earlier

424

: 00:26:29

and found myself, uh, repeating it.

425

: 00:26:30

It's not really a song.

426

: 00:26:32

It's my son, my eight years

old is learning piano and is

427

: 00:26:36

actually very much into it.

428

: 00:26:38

So yesterday evening he was repeating

some swing jazz piece they don't

429

: 00:26:43

even know, you know, from, uh,

his only kind of second year.

430

: 00:26:47

That stuck into my head and

it was like going, and I said,

431

: 00:26:50

whoa, where these tune come from?

432

: 00:26:52

And yesterday was for

30 minutes playing it.

433

: 00:26:57

So I, I got stuck with that.

434

: 00:27:00

Jemma Green: Amazing.

435

: 00:27:00

Well that sounds better than some of the

kids' songs to get stuck in your head.

436

: 00:27:05

Omer Luzzatti: Yeah, exactly.

437

: 00:27:06

Jemma Green: Oma, I've really enjoyed

the conversation with you today.

438

: 00:27:10

I didn't know a great deal about the

video industry and podcasting and AI

439

: 00:27:15

in this context, and it's been great

to use Giga verse and experience

440

: 00:27:19

all the different elements here

that we've had in this conversation.

441

: 00:27:23

And I found it really interesting to

hear how one of the skills that you've

442

: 00:27:27

had to fall upon as an entrepreneur

is when to focus and when to be broad.

443

: 00:27:34

You know that discernment skill is

really important to create a growing and

444

: 00:27:38

successful business, and I just wanted to

congratulate you on the progress you've

445

: 00:27:41

made so far with gig averse, with the

amount of users, and I'm looking forward

446

: 00:27:45

to using your platform again, and thank

you so much for coming on unblocked.

447

: 00:27:49

Omer Luzzatti: Thank you, Gemma.

448

: 00:27:50

Thank you, Anthony.

449

: 00:27:50

It was pleasure.

450

: 00:28:08

Anthony Perl: That's all for

this episode of Unblocked.

451

: 00:28:10

Please check out the show notes

for information on Power Ledger.

452

: 00:28:13

Other contact information.

453

: 00:28:15

We welcome your comments and

feedback and please hit subscribe

454

: 00:28:19

wherever you are listening.

455

: 00:28:20

This podcast was produced

by podcast Done for You.

456

: 00:28:23

We look forward to your

company next time on Unblocked.